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+---
+id:
+aliases: []
+title: 2025-12-10
+tags:
+  - authorship/original
+  - destiny/permanent
+  - status/draft
+  - type/daily
+---
+# 2025-12-10
+
+## 2025-12-10 10:45 --- ConEst Lighting Controls Meeting Notes
+
+#occupational/takeoff #topic/ambiguity #topic/transparency
+
+### Minutes
+
+2025-12-10 08:30--10:00
+
+Objective: Discuss lighting control systems
+
+A primary reason for the discussion was presented:
+
+> [!example] ^ex
+> While putting together a large garden style project
+> Bid received a quote for lighting control at over one million dollars.
+> Believing it [[gold-plating|overengineered]],
+> Bid proposed ~$150,000 for lighting control "per code".
+> The contract was awarded on those terms.
+> When the project team received a quote for a "per code" system,
+> the total was ~$600,000.
+
+Ultimately the responsibility is ConEst's
+to resolve discrepancies between:
+* applicable code
+* design intent
+* Bid proposal intent
+* PDR quote intent
+
+It was erroneously suggested that lighting control conductors
+may be run with their circuit conductors if both are 600V insulated.[^1]
+
+[^1]: This is a violation of [[nfpa-70_725_control-circuits#725.136(I) Other Applications.|NEC 725.136(I)(1)]].
+    See [[lighting-controls#0-10V Dimming|0-10V Dimming]].
+
+### My Thoughts
+
+The lighting control problem is misunderstood.
+It's true that some technical training would be beneficial to ConEst estimators,
+but root of the problem has nothing to do with lighting control.
+
+When I heard [[#^ex]], where lighting control went wrong
+and costed a job half a million in profit,
+what I took away was that we sold high-risk scope
+without knowing what was required _and without qualification_.
+
+Others have suggested creating new assemblies grouped by manufacturer,
+which I'm not a fan of.
+While it's true that similar implementations
+_are_ different between manufacturers,
+the differences are trivial for our purposes.
+More to the problem,
+such an arrangement would inevitably lead to confusion
+(i.e. taking off the wrong brand
+because its contents happen to match better in a specific instance).